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Post by alm5150 on May 11, 2012 15:59:30 GMT -5
First she saves SETI, now the water supply. Good cause... water.org/ |
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Post by mario on May 11, 2012 17:04:58 GMT -5
desirablejodie.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=chitchat&action=display&thread=5&page=22&post=643  Here's a little conspiracy(?) for you. Because I like stepping back to see the whole picture. There is no shortage of water on earth. Only if it would stop raining forever. After Big Oil, Big Nuke and Big Money, it's Big Water who tells you lies. Major (food) industries like Nestle, Unilever or Kraft are not interested in clean water for poor people. They want to sell them their expensive bottled water. Step one. In cities and communites around the world get access to local water suppliers which once were public. Step two. Make water a rare good...in people's head. Use huge media outlets, drop the message often enough and people believe it. The same global players who ruin huge areas because of gigantic single-crop farming, the same companies who intoxicate the water in third world countries by making the leather for your nice shoes under questionable conditions etc etc. they now tell you it's you who have to act, it's your fault if these poor women suffer and die and the overall message is see how we get deeper and deeper in that water shortage thing. Now it's only the poor people far away but soon it will be you. Step three. Payday. And the price doesn't matter because everyone knows clean water is rare.
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Post by alm5150 on May 11, 2012 19:23:16 GMT -5
I take offense at you implying that I can't see the big picture (or feeling the need to explain it to me). Very condescending.
Part of the reason I see this as a good cause is because it focuses on those countries that are 4th world...places that don't have industries that you mention above. They have nothing and are largely ignored by the US and EU, because they truly do have nothing. Haiti, Ghana, Bangladesh. It also focuses on the impact to women to get good clean water for their children. You ignore the fact that in these countries, the microbial contamination and overpopulation is the culprit (not Coke, not Pepsi).
It's easy to sit back and spout about blame and conspiracy, it actually takes work to be part of the solution. I see the course you appear to have taken, I'd rather be part of the solution. I am proud of family and friends in the Peace Corp and Unicef. I plan on retiring to the Peace Corp. I am proud to have been an organic farmer who is still involved in community farming. I am proud to have developed water reclamation systems for farming. I live in one of the cleanest regions of the US for a reason and intend to keep it that way. It is so much more rewarding than complaining about Coke and Pepsi (probably while drinking something produced, processed, or shipped by Coke or Pepsi...whether you know it or not).
For the record...I don't own leather products as of 2003. Again...thanks for the condescending attitude.
And Marian...the nice, clean water I have piped to my house is $6 USD a month. I use it to drink, shower, and water my plants without the fear of getting sick when engaging in these activities. What a blessing that is. A 16 ounce coke is $1.29. Not sure how coke is cheaper. Bottled water (also produced by Coke, Pepsi, or an affiliate) is also the same price as a coke. But I don't use bottle water unless I am concerned about contamination when I am travelling.
Thanks for the worldly lesson. I now realize what a true challenge it will be to make the world a better place with everyone casting blame and conspiracy instead of actually doing something.
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Post by mario on May 11, 2012 23:25:02 GMT -5
I feel we talk two different things. Maybe forget about the word 'conspiracy'. Described is more or less what people already experience everyday. You point to local problems and you are right. The shortcomings of water supply in the forgotten regions of the world like www.ibp.ethz.ch/research/aquaticchemistry/teaching/archive_past_lectures/term_paper_08_09/FS09Sutter_termpaper_ms.pdf.pdf are often rather simple to fix. Building wastewater systems or sewage plants also doesn't need much high tech. Of course we have to help. But you can't relativize or even prove wrong anything what's written above with what you said (if this was your intention?) It would be great if all people could trace back the origin of each of their goods and groceries, like you when you did organic farming. But this doesn't work for seven billion people. So we let monstrous companies do that work. The financial crisis shows very good what happens if greedy humans are unobserved. It _is a relevant part of the solution to be attentive, to see who has which motivations and interests. |
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Post by mario on May 11, 2012 23:37:45 GMT -5
...and about help and support for the 3rd and 4th world. Did you know that after decades of development aid, science just now has started to find viable methods to measure and quantify the actual success of our help for poor countries? It's such an easy word to say, let's 'help'. But what exactly does it mean, and how do we know it works? Quite complicated.
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Post by alm5150 on May 12, 2012 0:54:13 GMT -5
...and about help and support for the 3rd and 4th world. Did you know that after decades of development aid, science just now has started to find viable methods to measure and quantify the actual success of our help for poor countries? It's such an easy word to say, let's 'help'. But what exactly does it mean, and how do we know it works? Quite complicated. Any help, beats sitting around asking about it. Cash to legit charities, the Peace Corp has a long history of helping small villages with basic needs, volunteerism, volunteering vacations. If we sit around in "analysis paralysis" saying my drop won't really affect the filling of the bucket...the bucket never fills. Look at the Arab Spring...and the power of one turning into the power of many. |
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Post by alm5150 on May 12, 2012 1:07:13 GMT -5
Marian - I am always amazed that the water in the hotel rooms in the EU is more expensive than beer. The last menu I looked at had beer at 3.50 EUR, water at 5 EUR and tiny bottles of coke at 4 EUR.
There are a few water sources in the US that are privately owned, and often end up as commercial bottling sources. The majority of the water sources are owned by the federal or state government (West Coast, think of Lake Mead and the Hoover Dam...these are federal)...where as most of the East Coast is owned by the state where the source is located.
In the US...water and soda are roughly the same price anywhere you go (unless you are in Alaska or Hawaii, then the price is much more). If it is in a plastic bottle it is between $1 and $2.50 almost anywhere in the US. Beer and other light alcohol drinks are always more expensive due to taxes...at least $3.
Now I have a question for you. I am always amazed when I go to Europe how expensive dinner is. In the US, one person would spend about 20 EUR for a decent meal. I find that when I have dinner in Europe, I spend at least 35 sometimes 40-45 (like in Denmark) EUR for a somewhat basic dinner. Now some of that is based on location...or I am stuck eating at an overpriced hotel. So my question, is it as common for Europeans to eat out as it is for Americans? I can't see how you can afford it, if you do go out frequently. Maybe it is more of a special treat? I would say the average American eats dinner out 2-3 times a week.
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Post by munze on May 12, 2012 4:10:23 GMT -5
Wait till you buy dinner a beer and a coke in australia we've been ripped off for years
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Post by mario on May 12, 2012 7:01:58 GMT -5
...and about help and support for the 3rd and 4th world. Did you know that after decades of development aid, science just now has started to find viable methods to measure and quantify the actual success of our help for poor countries? It's such an easy word to say, let's 'help'. But what exactly does it mean, and how do we know it works? Quite complicated. Any help, beats sitting around asking about it. Cash to legit charities, the Peace Corp has a long history of helping small villages with basic needs, volunteerism, volunteering vacations. If we sit around in "analysis paralysis" saying my drop won't really affect the filling of the bucket...the bucket never fills. Look at the Arab Spring...and the power of one turning into the power of many. [you've got pm] You can't know this (and I won't talk this here) but 'sitting around' is certainly not what I do... I'm sorry you don't see there lies a problem within all your help. You're so convinced to do the right, every NGO, everyone is totally convinced what they do helps people. While in fact the effects of that help often are not analyzed. It has nothing to do with paralysis. It's an approach where you take some time to think about your actions, it's very human and it's very wise to think about that on the long range. Did you forget it's not long ago we thought all it needs is to sink wells? Did you forget we thought it's a good idea sending old clothes to Africa? Or that all you need is building schools? No, your 'drop' might cause so many other things you never thought about, because the year you have been in that poor country in Asia everyone was happy. But you never came back. What I mean is, look alm5150, we spent and donated billions of $ in the last decades. Shouldn't we expect something does change? For me personally the reason for helping is somewhat different. The child that dies right now from hunger somewhere, it could have been the person who later discovers the medicine for cancer. Or Aids. Or creates a car that runs with water. Whatever. So overpopulation itself for me is not necessarily a problem. It's also a chance. www.sciencemag.org/site/special/population/3336042-malakoff-v1.xhtml |
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Post by mario on May 12, 2012 8:13:52 GMT -5
Wait till you buy dinner a beer and a coke in australia we've been ripped off for years Since we have the Euro there is a difference between the felt price increase and the official data. Most people will tell you that especially anything to do with catering/gastronomy costs nearly twice than back in Deutschmark days. But the question is if today with the old currency the prices would be the same, nobody knows this. |
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Post by mario on May 12, 2012 8:25:46 GMT -5
WEll it is depending where you live When you go to norway or iceland ( esp there) food is really expensive because a lot of it has to be flown in. Also it depends on how much it is subsidized. For instance Holland is one of the main exporters because of that in food. Which is devastating to the third world development by the way, but that is different story. So in holland I can eat good for a decent price (n Belgian better, but that is an inside joke between the Belgian and the Dutch). But I think or meals are smaller though then in the US . When I lived in Switzerland we always ate warm lunch outdoors and it was really cheap. I couldn't cook that myself for.. When you to the south prices are different again. So you know, it is depending on where you are living in Europe. And maybe you have to know your way. I was once in Portugal decades ago...went with somebody who knew around...boy a new world opened. Did you eat at NOMA? www.noma.dk/ haha..the worlds best restaurant. And I love they gather the food most of the times. Something i do often when i'm on a break in Normandy...Free food This Noma thing is def. a place I will visit if I ever come to Kopenhagen. Thanks. It's pretty useless to compare prices alone. I can't find the link now but there was very good comparison chart showing how long people have to work in their countries to effort their goods and services. I tend to say that markets are almost imcomparable. I suspect we have some vegetarians here. So sorry, but prices for meat around the world are very interesting. While I envy Americans for buying their T-bone steaks unbelievable cheap (and at unbelievable sizes Yum!) I wonder how the French are willing to pay almost a monthly wage for their boeuf (which is of excellent quality then of course). |
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